Hive Fleet Turnip

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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby Psycho Bins » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:32 pm

Ye totally went for that scheme :? I didn't just pick some colours and throw them at a model lol.........

Cheers like I said only for SWA so I need four or so can't imagine painting and army
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Now had four games with the new codex... three wins, one defeat, they are not used to winning..

amazing juts what you can kill by drawing it in dice, nice for gene stealers to finally be as nasty as the background makes them
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:22 pm

Another run, and back to defeat!

in other news, assembled another 20 Hormagaunts, and dug up another few that were bought on the bay of Eeee a while back, looking to base them up tomorrow. Also dusted off the remaining 1st edition genestealers, then washed the rest of the dust off.. also hopefully to base tomorrow and prime up during the week
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:04 pm

Run a few more games now, defeat to Dave's Marines.. And one called early vs Scott's Dark Angels that could have gone either way on VP at the end, but wouldn't have been a decisive result either way.

Turns out Kraken Genestealers are pretty nasty when you get the first turn (go 20" movement before charging).

List is flawed though so making a couple of changes, both tyrants are modelled with the forge world heavy weapon arms, well they can be pretty much any weapon set so are no longer the heavy quad devourer and are now a par of heavy death spitters - provides S7 but critically AP-1 attacks (only 6 shots total, down from 24 though) as this is likely more useful against fliers - also frees a "slot" so they can have Monstrous Scything Talons to actually be able to fight in combat - AP-3 with 3 Damage, plus re-rolls of "1" to hit. The flying one is thus much more capable of going flier hunting, and the ground one much better able to handle close combat works.

the unit of 8 genestealers is removed and replaced with 20 Hormagaunts, the big unit of 30 now a unit of 20, so two of 20 which will hopefully be more useful - one being "Kraken" so likely a lot faster.

Little unit of 10 Hormagaunts has been removed, all together providing points for the triplet of Biovores to return as individual heavy choices for a bit of ranged mortal wound irritation (and as individual choices a bit harder to simply nuke on the first turn)

With luck this will retain the close assault punch the list has against most armies, reduce the "Anti horde" firepower in exchange for better "anti elite" and "anti light/medium vehicle" firepower (T7 and below) which should see them as a more effective force.

There is a further option, under consideration, to swap both units of rippers out for the Hive Crone for more anti-flier capability, still thinking as 14 rippers are a lot harder to remove than a T6 flier
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Thu May 03, 2018 3:33 pm

Another game, win this time, though with a somewhat one-trick pony list - 1,000 points, with about 900 of them as a Kraken detachment (2x20 genestealers, 2x brood lords & 20x hormagaunts), add a couple of warriors and done.

Kraken genestealers are brutal, if they catch you that is - base move 8", 3d6 pick the highest for advance, with a stratagem to double the dice - then the ability to charge for a base move like 18"-20". They can get a +1 to the advance (not doubled though) and +1 to charge distance as well.

There is then a stratagem to fight a second time, plus various buffs to make them hit on a 1+ and perhaps retooling misses.

They in theory drop like flies to shooting, but rapid fire weapons don't cut it, you need assault cannons and similar
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Tue May 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Little bit of an after action review

first game was a 25-2 win facing Custards, didn't really learn a lot here other than genestealers can take down small groups of T5 models, if you burn CP to make them fight twice, and despite it being well known they are fast just how fast still catches people out.

but for a mistake I made would have been 25-0 but there you go

second game.. ahh now this one was a bit more interesting, James, stick with Ad-Mech, they are nasty buggers

Enemy had two walker thingies with neutron lasers that over four turns between them dropped my Crone and both hive tyrants, spending the final turn shooting are gargoyles.

six dragoon chicken walkers, these are pure evil, to hit rolls of a 6 count as three hits in close combat, and they have a strat fro a +2 to hit.. these things delete infantry like nothing I have ever seen - but if you catch them first are possible to kill with genestealers.

they also had one of the big FW knights with a flame cannon.. S7 D3 18" range 2d6 auto hits, this thing is utterly brutal beyond measure

Anyway they put the knight on one side of a lengthways table to threaten one objective, and the two baby knights on the other with half the walkers - made a mistake and they infiltrated the other three behind my lines and blatted the warlord turn one.. :shock: this it turned out mattered as they gained 2VP for First Blood and Slay the Warlord.

He expected me to advance but instead both gene stealer units turned on him and obliterated them, figured better to kill something outright with overkill than leave it alive to still fight. shooting wasn't much on the first turn, he didn't advance to try and block deep striking gargoyles and a flyrant. so most stuff was out of range. we advanced and grabbed the two central objectives though they didn't score yet with genestealers on both sides and gribbles supporting.

That knight thing wandered forwards (its not slow either), cooked a fair few genestealers but thankfully not too many, the baby knights moved up and took a unit of hormagaunts from 20 to 6 with the other chicken walkers helping. interestingly no enemy unit ever crossed the halfway line

piled genestealers into the knight, overwatch murdering about half of them, the rest took a good few wounds off, coupled with biovores, they then died - the second unit repeated this the following turn, got the swine down to 7 wounds and it backed off to repair, managed to finish his chickens off with smite and the tyrants before they both went down, gribbles pushing the baby knights back and blocking their advances.

on my T4 I was running out of bodies, made a last bid for the enemy objective with gargoyles who dropped T3, didn't get close - but if they lived would have grabbed it through weight of numbers hence ending up with everything they had firing at them.

ended his knight on one mid table objective, me with a single surviving broodlord one one remaining wound on the other, a bivore on my home one and his laser whatsits on his - objective drawer so the two points he got on T1 decided it.

Thoughts:
have been wondering how the hell to take that knight down, Hierodule? likely gets shot to ribbons, eats a command point for the slot and needs a good few turns to actually do it. twin T-Fex with cannons? similar cost and less effective at range, slightly harder to kill though..

Ended up thinking the easy solution is to bring a third unit of genestealers to replace some smaller gribbles (e.g. drop both hormagaunts and a biovore and bring 20 more genestealers for 3x20 of them - if we had that in this game that knight would have gone down in a way no other option would have managed and they are a lot more useful normally - doesn't overly help v fliers but meh.
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:44 pm

1,750 game v Scott's armoured guard list... CA2018 scenario "cut off the head"

Guard win, but close for a while - basically because killing stuff doesn't really matter and the central objective becomes a murder ground if the scoring characters try to get too close to it.

Genestealers with Kraken for the movement, the double move stratagem then charging does what it does, in this case removed one of the ugly boxes and crippled another with a bit of biovore help, spore mines finished off the last which essentially gave me one flank of the board - doesn't overly matter here but nice to have (more for killing those damned anti infantry transports). The rest basically died in front of the armour, not really having an answer to the T8 high wounds 3+ armour of the battle tanks, let alone five of the flipping things...

Well except characters who typically will die getting close, or monsters that simply don't live long enough generally - wondering on a couple of Tin Opener Carnifex though which are cheap enough and maybe can get close enough - nice choice between firing at them or the genestealers though, and they really don't care about low strength anti infantry weapons.. something to consider for the toolbox I guess.

Overall though the list did about what I expected it to, the Kraken genestealers race forwards, kill what they catch, then die, needs to be better at getting the follow up wave into place, they more or less did but by the time they got there it was Hormagants V Leman Russ tanks which was never going to end well.

Think the guard had two infantry models left at the end, but what I had left simply had no answer to five battle tanks more than it did when the game started...

Called end of turn four, Equal VP but the IG were now gaining three a turn just for existing, to the Nids two, with no answer so the outcome was obvious.

Fun game though, the extra VP from the newer rules is nice, and finally getting to suck a characters brains out with a broodlord was fun
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Re: Hive Fleet Turnip

Postby leopard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:02 pm

Musings...

Ways to get some anti armour into the list, without essentially crippling its "all comers" ability.

Two options spring to mind, they can be combined but it guts a lot of models from the list - this may not matter.

The first is to adapt the Kraken detachment, these guys have "roll three dice and pick the highest to advance", they also have "can fall back and charge again, seldom used with the Kraken-stealers though.

Take advantage of this with something that wants to move and likes to charge, and fights in multiple rounds, our old friend the carnifexen - specifically a dedicated close combat version that can advance to get into place, 7" base move is not bad - forget double moves and charging, thats the genestealers job, these guys pile forwards turn one, then move more cautiously the second turn so as to be able to charge - base WS is 4+, becomes a 5+ with the crushing claws for S12 attacks, 5 of them with the tusks adaptation, a 6th with a bone mace tail - back to a 4+ on the charge (which is why Kraken is useful here) and a 3+ if Old One Eye is about to lead them, they also do mortal wounds on the charge (4+ to do one, not amazing but it adds up)

those attacks being AP-3 and a flat 3 damage each, they are basically anti armour stuff, not too bad against heavy infantry, not so good v invulnerable saves though. And on a T7 8W Sv3+ package, able to run a native -1 to hit v ranged weapons reasonably cheaply too, this swine can also have 6 S7 AP -1 or 12 S6 AP 0 ranged shots that are "assault" so able to fire as it piles forwards - likely a group of three with a mix of ranged options.

Old One Eye basically being an extra wound, BS 3+ and buffing those around him, with no ranged options - if the lot get close they are putting out a lot of shots that are not that easy to drop too quickly - yes a battle tank can drop one with a bit of luck in a turn, but its doing nothing else that turn, and Fexen don't have a degrading profile so on one wound they still do the job - there are a few nice stratagems to help, but unlikely to have the CP to actually use them... circa 540 points for the three plus OOE - the integrate well into my list and allow one of the broodlords to be removed which nearly pays for a Carnifex loaded thus (they can be a fair bit cheaper, but get a lot more rubbish if you do)


The second option is Hive Guard, of which I currently have zero, not amazing as units go, but they have a nice 36" range non-line of sight gun thats twin shot S8 AP-2 and D3 damage, also no bonus for being in cover when hit (like that happens much). 144 points for three, better as a unit of six though to use the "double tap" stratagem to spit out 24 shots - they have a shorter ranged version that does need to be able to see that can also do mortal wounds, but they don't want to be getting too close if they can help it.

Now my list as used today can be cut back to run both of these, means dropping the gargoyles, rippers, all the termagants (and they are cute) the warriors and one broodlord, plus a neurothrope... essentially the list becomes a bunch of genestealers, some hormagaunts and a broodlord running forwards with four carnifex... while behind them are three biovores and six hive guards with a Kronos Neurothrope to babysit them (so they get re-rolls of '1' when firing if they sit still)

main weakness is v horde infantry, but to be honest who apart from me actually runs that locally on any regular basis? in return they can hurt armour, the genestealers are good ve medium and elite infantry even if they are poor v serious armour they can handle transports and the like - the hormagaunts are basically there to get in the way and pick on weaker infantry.

Not strong v deep striking units as its basically a glass hammer that needs to cripple the enemy by the end of the second turn or there won't be a lot left...
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